Different fighting/grappling styles

[Fingers]

Cope, I have not meant to upset you and I can see your visualizations being real and actually in game.  As long as the visualizations do not change the physics of allowed outcomes, none of this matters. 

We were talking about different things.  You... I like to think of this style as the way my character fights, that's cool.  That's completely fine, I just think that such visualizations may open a potential can of worms if we don't define the differences between grappling and striking.   I am talking about grappling that affects the combat.  partial holds, or tripping or throwing.  So long as a brawler is not allowed to throw someone out of the way or hamper their ability to fight without using specific skills or reverting to pure grappling rules I'm great with visualizing the Thai clench, a grabbed shoulder or a shove this way  or that in how Einstein does damage.

Again I was not trying to say that they are a stick figure standing stiff and boxing with a head butt every now and then.  It's just that those are the only ones that have any real numerical effect to the combat.  A swordsman feints parries and strikes blows through the combat that do not count numerically as well.  Hell they can fight with a sword in each hand but without the proper skills they do no more numerically than the guy wielding one. 

Anyway, I like your visualizations and yes I do the same with my characters.  Mat standing up on his horse so he can get a better shot.  Does that actually change the bonuses, hell no but it's fun to view it that way.  So I do get what you were talking about.

Again I do apologize for not being able to talk about something on here without causing flaming tempers.  That is never my intention.

[Cope]

Whatever, you like to be right all of the time, we all do....and if we can't be right we want to argue, my favorite part........

Please realize that I have the ONLY current PC that any of the grappling/brawling/striking talk really affects and I have repeatedly stated to LEAVE it alone. Grappling needs to be left weak (why, because it is completely outside our current combat rules), unless someone wants to take the time to completely rewrite the grappling rules. I do not think it is worth it. I do see room for minor additions but these additions must drive the player to make hard decisions with their skill points, which is why I see a multiskill or 2-3 complimentary skills.

You would think that if it would give me a leg up that I would be all for it.....but if I think we should leave it alone.....I expect every player to be an advocate for their character's styles. I don't want Darren or Lew making all of the decisions (That is unfair to them and everyone)..........each person has the responsibility to enhance your character. If you get something passed that completely unbalances the game in your favor, then shame on the rest of us......and hopefully the GM royally fucks us with it in the first available fight. Then we can change the rule back and roll up new characters.......

Good night fellas..........

[Fingers]

Night T.

[Lew]

I remember the ancient days of playing under Russel Keck (last name could be wrong, no relation to Joanna's Keck), something like what we are talking about came up.  Someone, maybe Russ himself, was talking about all these neat little moves with a staff.  Well, I had a character who used a staff, imagine that Lew was playing a mage.  Well, I told Russ these special little moves that I wanted to use and he ended up giving me all kinds of extra attacks.

How should it have been run?  Well we all know now.  Visualize what ever clever thing you want.  Make your one d20 roll on you initiative, as someone who plays a fighter if you hit and roll a d6 or something for damage.

There is a lot that a bunch of numbers can't represent.  We have a constant issue of what engaged fighter lines look like.  We don't need rules, as long as everyone is reasonable.  "Lew, my character is trying to get to their mage."  "O.K, it won't be this series, but next series you'll be able to maneuver to have a clear run at him." or "Terry, the monster is trying to get past you, your not sure you can hold him", Terry: "speaking: Helix, here he comes!'  Point is, you all generally trust me as a GM and trust me to make in combat decisions that numbers can't. 

It's the same on an individual level.  On you initiative you roll a dice and hope to give me damage, but if Irving is delivering a massive overhead swing, or hooking the opponent with the axe and pulling him into his spiked plate mail, it doesn't matter.  If we come up with special maneuvers for everything that is possible, that's all the game will be.  We'll end up with "Irving is making a horizontal swing with his axe about head level."  Let's see that's +10 on the attack and minus one to my next initiative, blah, blah, blah.  Like Head says "Just hit it".

[Head]

Two parts to combat I feel.. the visual, imaginary part of it, and the boring, mathematical mechanics that are necessary to put a number to the amount of attacks and damage being done.  (in computer games, the computer takes care of all this "busy" dice rolling, save checking, spell targetting work).

When Henry was swinging around and poking things with his Trident... I see the initiative and damage as just a numerical value to what he's done so far.  That 17 points or whatever could be viewed as one huge hit or just a bunch of little cuts and scrapes over that period of time... I mean, how many times can you actually jab at something in 10 seconds... lot more than 1 or 2.  If you wanted to visualize it this way, the only time you actually land that one heavy single blow is a crit. 

Ok there, I at least have a post in this thread... 

[Cope]

Nice visualization Head......ok now I have a post in this thread......errr.....

[Lew]

Another good point.

ones - jab / two's -jab / three's duck / fours feint / fives 18 points Lew / sixes step-jab / seven's - 24 points of damage Head / eights  wobble / nines jab step / tens step into Fred's out reached hand.

[Dj]

It's better to think in these terms for visualization. Otherwise, everyone just stands around staring at each other between 2's and 6's...

      When's the GM gonna call nines?
      /
 

[Lew]

 

[Cope]

Holding all attacks is a very impressive strategy. I think you range guys should try it.......

[Lew]

One of my goals is to have a draft of advanced grappling skills ready for review.  My goal is not for them to be in effect then, but we'll see.  I half expect we will choose not to use whatever I write up and that is fine.  We all really want to make a real effort to create effective rules for this style of combat, so I will give it a try.  I'm not going to bring up each step for review though.  I'll try to have a good chunk of possible rules done, so we can analyze them as a whole.

I'm pretty sure I'm going the multi-skill route.

[Dj]

Multi-skills and combat maneuvers are probably headed for a collision course...

[Lew]

I know, we'll see what happens.  I'm not real optimistic about this anyway, but I want to try.

[Dj]

FYI: Since it came up at a few significant times this weekend, I thought I'd mention we forget to apply racial modifiers to standing time.

Time to stand is a base 2 seconds assuming the character is unencumbered.  This time is then modified by armor worn, race and encumbrance.
Racial modifiers are as follows:
minotaur; +2 seconds
tigara;       -1 second
dwarf;      +1 second
equirda;   +2 seconds


(However, as Lew re-writes the grappling stuff, this comment may become moot)

[Fingers]

Oh yeah I forgot about those!